The Truth about Eckhart, Oprah and Jesus

The Truth about Eckhart, Oprah and Jesus
Sermon at Southern Heights Church
May 25, 2008


This past week I read A New Earth, by Eckhart Tolle (toe - lee) cover to cover. Oprah Winfrey has been vigorously promoting Eckhart's book for some time. She is using her incredible influence and marketing clout to advance his latest book, which, with her help, has now sold, I am told, in excess of 5million.

This morning, in the light of Jesus' teaching in John 10:1-10, I want to talk about what Eckhart has to say. Is he on the mark? Is he to be trusted? Followed?

Let me say, right out of the gate, I liked much of what Eckhart says. He has some significant insights, and I learned from him. He is a keen observer of the human race. He knows the Bible. Much of what he says is in harmony with the teaching of the Bible. He desires to make a positive difference in the world.

Along with these things, I must also say to you, a spiritual equivalent of "Danger Will Robinson" [cup hands over mouth]
The quoting of Scripture, the homage given to Jesus are commendable, but the essence of Eckhart's message is significantly, substantially different from the message of the Bible.

John 10:1-10
"I tell you the truth, the man who does not enter the sheep pen by the gate, but climbs in by some other way, is a thief and a robber. 2 The man who enters by the gate is the shepherd of his sheep. 3 The watchman opens the gate for him, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. 4 When he has brought out all his own, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they know his voice. 5 But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger's voice." 6 Jesus used this figure of speech, but they did not understand what he was telling them.

7 Therefore Jesus said again, "I tell you the truth, I am the gate for the sheep. 8 All who ever came before me were thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not listen to them. 9 I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved. He will come in and go out, and find pasture. 10 The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.

We begin by noting that…
Jesus gives a warning and a promise

The Warning--other so-called shepherds, spiritual leaders and teachers, will be trying to get to the sheep. There have always been people who CLAIM to be from God, to have the truth for the people, but are not really from God. Always. This is just as true today as during Jesus' day.
Just because a person claims to be from God, loves Jesus and quotes the Bible does not make them a trustworthy spiritual teacher.

That's the warning. Watch out for false prophets.
But there is also a promise here.
And a great promise it is: Jesus himself is the Gate, the Door, to the sheep pen, the place where the sheep gather, especially at night. He will stand as the guardian and protector of his sheep.
And further, those who belong to Jesus, will know and recognize his voice. There is something distinctive about a person's voice.

Sometime I answer the phone, and someone starts talking without identifying themselves, and I'm not sure who it is. But most of the time, if it is someone I know, I recognize their voice immediately.

It is that way with those who know Jesus. He says we will know him, we will recognize him by his voice.

Recently, there are a couple of people who claim to have knowledge of the truth, and who have been making their claim to millions and millions. They make…

A recent claim to enlightenment and truth: Oprah Winfrey and Eckhart Tolle

Oprah Winfrey most of you know. Talk show host on daytime TV.
Her career began with a local radio station when she
was just 19. Then, through hard work and talent, she worked her way up from TV station to TV station, as newscaster and anchor, through Tennessee and Maryland, until finally, in 1984, she moved to WLS-TV in Chicago to host a local talk show. ...which became such a hit it eventually went national.
And the rest, as they say, is history.
By her 20th anniversary as host of The Oprah Winfrey Show, she had become a billionaire, and assembled a U.S. television audience of more than 49 million viewers each week – which does not include her broadcasts in 122 other countries. This past year, Forbes magazine named her the most influential celebrity for 2007

Oprah is a very spiritual person. She grew up in a Baptist home. But in recent years she has been expanding her spiritual horizons, citing the influence of writers like Deepak Chopra and Marianne Williamson, and most recently, Eckhart Tolle.

Eckhart first came on the N American scene through his book the Power of Now , But recently has exploded by selling more than five million copies [with the endorsement of Oprah Winfrey] of the book I just read, A New Earth.

Now
Where is Eckhart coming from?
Eckhart comes from a long line of thinkers and religious philosophers.

Most of his ideas are deeply rooted in Hindu and Buddhist thought.
The world view and philosophy of Eckhart is part of what some have come to call the New Age Movement. There is no such self-identified movement, but this term serves as a generalized umbrella, a title to describe a variety of religious philosophies that blend together eastern religions and philosophies together with pieces of Christianity and humanism. There are many varieties of teaching and thinking, but there tend to be five …

"New Age Movement" basics: (thanks to John Wesley White for this formulation, in a recent message shared on the Serious Times website, serioustimes.com)

New Age Basics…
A. All is one, and so everyone/everything is God
This lies at the core of New Age, and Eckhart's, viewpoint. It comes from eastern thought.

At the root, the essence of all things, there is an abiding connectedness. Even though things appear to be distinct, on a deeper level, the level of Being, all things are one. They are interrelated, interdependent, and partake of the divine essence. All things are "god"; there is no other being out there who is god; god is in all things, and all things are god.

An excellent illustration of this way of thinking is found in the Star Wars movie series, in the concept of the "force." The Force is a sort of energy field present in all things. Eckhart calls it the Presence or the Being.
On p. 140 he speaks of …your true identity as timeless and formless Presence

And so, if God is all things, and in all things, then the clear implication is: "I am God." You are God. Not all say it that plainly, but is clearly the outcome of this starting point.

The next basic idea found in the New Age movement is:
B. The need for enlightenment or awareness or consciousness

The goal for Eckhart is that we become "Conscious." The problem with humanity is that we are "unconscious", not self aware. He says, pp. 6-7 "This book's main purpose is…to bring about a shift in consiousness, that is to say, awaken."

We are ruled by our thoughts, our goals, our feelings. Salvation means to awaken to the Presence within; to become Aware of Self. Most people are not aware that they are god, and need to awaken to this reality, become conscious of it. They need to be awakened, to come to the realization that God is not "out there" but is "within".

Much of what Oprah is about on her current spiritual quest is to put forward spiritual guides who can help her audience to realize their own Presence, to become Conscious, to realize that within yourself is God. Coming to this awareness enlightenment, and is the purpose of all existence.

Exactly what is this? Is it an idea? A form of cosmic energy? That is not clear. What is clear is that this awareness of self is at the center of the universe, and is above all else.

Third basic idea is that:
C. Everything is relative
What is true is not really what is "out there" but what is true to you, to your own way of thinking, according to your own Consiousness.

The truth is found inside yourself, when you become enlightened or awakened.
Some in the New Age Movement find truth through channeling, by making contact with the dead or with other spirits. That is not that Tolle advocates. He wants you to find the Truth that is already in you, already a part of you.

He writes: The Truth is inseparable from who you are. Yes, you are the Truth….The very Being that you are is Truth." p. 71

Eckhart goes on to do something very interesting. He quotes Jesus in the next sentence, who said "I am the way and the truth and the life." And then he says these words have been misinterpreted. Says Eckhart: "Jesus speaks of the innermost truth I Am, the essence identity of every man and woman, every life-form, in fact. He speaks of the life that you are."
Then, a few sentences later, he says that what Jesus meant here is the same thing that Buddhists mean by the "Buddha nature" or the Hindus mean by "Atman."

The fact is, Eckhart is the one misinterpreting Jesus here, very radically. The complete sentence of Jesus in John 14:6 is:
"I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

Jesus is saying something completely different than Eckhart makes him out to say. He is saying that he is a completely different kind of person; he is the one and only way to God.

But in New Age thinking, everything is relative because truth is found inside yourself. It fits Eckhart's belief system to quote just the first part of the verse, so that is what he does. This is a common practice throughout A New Earth. Snippets of the Bible are quoted, at times far out of context, and used to support an argument that is not at all consistent with biblical teaching.

A fourth core idea is:
D. Belief in reincarnation, or the denial of death

There is no real death; you come back as something else. So there is a denial of death as the Bible describes it.

According to Eckhart: "death… begins the next incarnation, the next identification with form, the next individual dream that is part of the collective dream. When the lion tears apart the body of the zebra, the consciousness that incarnated into the zebra-form detaches itself from the dissolving form and for a brief moment awakens to its essential immortal nature as consciousness; and then immediately falls back into sleep and reincarnates into another form" p. 292

Shirley MacLaine, one of the first celebrity spokespersons for the New Age movement, claims to have lived thousands of lives before, including as a harem dancer, a Spanish dancer, a monk, a Peruvian youth, and at one time was Queen of the Elephants.

What you become has to do with your karma and how you lived in your previous incarnation.

The idea that a person dies once, then is accountable to God and spends eternity either with God or in hell, is completely rejected.

Fifth principle of New Age thinking is:
E. Unrestrained optimism

To Eckhart and other New Age writers, there is an underlying sense of optimism; that we are evolving toward the age of Enlightenment, the New Age, the New Earth from which Eckhart gets the title of his book, IF we awaken, and become conscious.

The final chapter of Eckhart's book lays out his understanding of the New Earth. It is something WE bring. Of course the teaching of Eckhart himself is an important piece of the coming of the New Earth!

A new heaven is the emergence of the new state of consciousness in humanity, and a new earth is the physical result of this new awareness.
This evolution of consciousness is, or can be, taking place continually, and Eckhart says there is a great world wide awakening going on now. As we wake up to our own god-hood, human potential will blossom and suffering will cease.

Now we need to ask a question:
Where did these teachings come from?

Eckhart claims that many of his ideas come from very ancient times, the Tao in China, the Indian gurus, and so on. In fact, they come from a time even before that.

Looking at Genesis 3:1-5
Let's read this text
Gen 3:1-5
Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, "Did God really say, 'You must not eat from any tree in the garden'?"
2 The woman said to the serpent, "We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, 'You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.'"
4 "You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman. 5 "For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

First comes the
1) The denial of right and wrong
Did God really say that? That's not wrong. He is not telling you everything. It's not true.
Truth is relative
That was point #3 under New Age basics. You need to look within yourself and find your own truth. Don't listen to God. He's holding back on you.

2) The denial of death
Verse 4 "you will not surely die".
Death is an illusion.
The new age notion of reincarnation, Point 4, is another way to deny death as real.

3) You can be [like] God!
Verse 5 "When you eat…you will be like God"
You don't want to be a mere human; you can be God yourself! Don't let him have all the glory. Awaken to the Divinity within you. See New Age Basics, Point 1--everything is God, including you.

4) Eating what God forbade will bring enlightenment
Verse 5 says, "your eyes will be opened". You will have greater awareness, greater consciousness; you will know things you never new before.
Point 2 of New Age basics, the need for enlightenment.

There is nothing new in Eckhart or the New Age Movement.
The issues and ideas are as old as the Garden of Eden. We know from scripture that …
2 Cor 11:14 …Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light
And in this movement, he has done it again. Sounding very spiritual, very open minded to all teachings, he is basically repackaging the distortions that were used in the Garden of Eden to lead the human race astray.

This leaves us with a question:
What shall we make of teachings like those of Eckhart?

Millions of people have his book. Millions more hear him on Oprah and in other ways. Teachings like his are everywhere. What should we do?
Let me suggest six ways we can and should respond to Eckhart Tolle and others.

First,
We can learn from them. All truth is God's truth
I have pointed out some of the flaws in Eckhart's book, in his thinking. These flaws are significant. But as I said earlier, there are things to be learned from him. As with anything else you hear or read as a Christian, you of course need to be discerning.
But Eckhart also says some powerful things about living in the moment, about becoming aware of your thoughts, about the dangers of mindless TV watching and mindlessness in general.

If it is true and helpful, it is true no matter who says it, because all truth is God's truth.

Secondly, although I disagree in some fundamental ways with the teaching Eckhart and the New Age Movement
We should respect them
When we disagree (and there are places where we must) we should respectfully disgree. Christians have often not been good at this. Ranting and raving, name calling and finger pointing are not helpful, and bring no honor to our God.

Making a caricature out of someone's ideas is disrespectful. How we disagree is important along with the fact of our disagreement.

Amazingly, the apostle Paul, after spending two years of teaching daily in Ephesus, the seat of the pagan worship of the goddess Diana, or Artemis, could not be accused of ever having blasphemed the goddess! Read about it in Acts 19. A riot was going on because of the implications of the truth he was teaching from Scripture. It was making a difference in Ephesus, a big difference. But the city manager defended Paul and the others, saying that they "never blasphemed our goddess." Quite amazing, for if you study about the worship of Artemis, it was very very gross and immoral. Paul taught the truth of Jesus and did not make his points by going after the pagan worship of the day.

Thirdly, when it comes to New Age teachings:
We must carefully test them against God's inspired truth and see them for what they are

This is what we have attempted to do this morning. We shine the light of God's truth on ideas, and we see what we find. We are people who have "the mind of Christ". Since we possess the Holy Spirit, and the truth of Scripture, we need to KNOW what we believe in order to test whatever comes along.

Books like Eckhart's and statements such as Oprah makes would not receive such wide acceptance if believers were more discerning and able to test all ideas against the truth of Scripture.

Fourthly,
We must wisely instruct God's people to be discerning, because the devil's tactic is to twist, distort, and misinterpret God's Word
From the very beginning the devil has been twisting and distorting the truth. It is imperative that we instruct our children, our students, and keep growing ourselves in the knowledge of God. We intend to significantly upgrade our church Education Hour the coming Fall to EQUIP YOU (eQuip U) to test the spirits, to see whether they are from God, so that we can hold on to what is good, and reject what is false.

Every one of us needs to keep growing in our knowledge of God's Word and God's truth. The better we know God's truth, the more able we will be to identify what is false.

Fifthly,
We must never forget that the way of Jesus is the way of life
Remember verse 10 of John 10
The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.

Jesus gives LIFE; not just eternal life, as wonderful as that is; but life now, a high-quality, significant, abundant, joyful, amazing life.
Are you experiencing a great life now? If you are not, there is more for you. God wants you to have a really, truly, amazingly good life NOW. Starting today. A relationship with God through Jesus is meant to bring you this kind of life. I don't mean that God gives you everything you want; I mean that you can have a life that is full of joy and peace and contentment and significance.

I believe that one reason Eckhart's book sells so many copies is that many Christians are not experiencing a fulfilling, joyful life in Christ. But you can, and it can start today.
Start by: becoming aware, right this moment, and every moment, that God is with you. Jesus is in you, through His Spirit. Christ in you, the hope of glory. And he wants to give you life, and help, and hope, and grace, each moment. Gal 2:20 says: I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. You have a new life NOW. Jesus is in you NOW.

Sixthly,
We must not repeat Oprah's mistake--if something is difficult or confusing or challenging, study and seek godly counsel and input

Did you catch what Oprah said about what started her on this journey? It was when she heard that God was jealous. It seems as though this was a new idea or concept to her, even though it is in the Ten Commandments (Exodus 20:5).
She heard that God is "jealous", could not accept that, and proceeded to find another religion that was more to her liking.

Jealous in Hebrew is "chana". It means, when used of God, that he "demands exclusive service and devotion of his people." In other words, his expectation is that if you serve Him, you will serve no one else. Same sense we might use of a husband or wife who expects that their spouse be devoted to them and no one else.
Is this something over which to jettison your view of God? Don't you actually want a God who cares enough about your loyalty to insist that you remain true to him?

Oprah apparently took her own idea of jealousy (Webster has as one meaning, "distrustfully watchful, suspicious"), applied that to God, and decided she could not worship a God like that.
But let's think about that. What might have been a better response? What about study? Had she actually studied the Hebrew concept, gained in her understanding of what this actually meant, she may never been drawn to the teachings of Eckhart.

She did not rightly understand the text, and it led her to a bad place.

Let's remember what Jesus said:
The sheep learn to recognize the shepherd's voice. This keeps them safe.

We know God's voice through his Word, and through the work of the Holy Spirit.

We will all have "Oprah experiences" where we hear a teaching of the scripture and we struggle with it.

Let's embrace the struggle; study; learn; grow in our understanding.

Jesus informs us that there will be, always, those who claim to be spiritual teachers and leaders, but are to be neither trusted nor followed. It was true when he lived, it is true now.
He says "I am the door", "I am the gate". Those who would lead God's people must pass muster, must be authorized by Jesus.
This means much more than that they mention his name, or even quote His Word. Oprah does both; so does Eckhart Tolle.
But Eckhart does not interpret Jesus in a biblical way. He uses snippets of what Jesus says that bolster his own viewpoints, but are frequently misquotations of what Jesus meant.

Can we learn from Echart? Yes we can. The man is intelligent; he is very observant about the human condition and about our needs.
But always we must learn while exercising careful judgment and discernment, because ultimately his teachings will lead you away from Jesus, not toward Jesus.

I hope and pray that Oprah Winfrey comes to realize this, and will then use her amazing influence to point people only to Jesus, the one who is The Way and The Truth and The Life.

TEXTS ON THE "JEALOUS" GOD

Jealous God (one of the Ten Commandments!)
Ex 20:5
5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,
NIV

Ex 34:14
14 Do not worship any other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous , is a jealous God.

Deut 4:24
24 For the LORD your God is a consuming fire, a jealous God.

SAUL HAD AN ENVIOUS JEALOUSY OF DAVID
1 Sam 18:9
9 And from that time on Saul kept a jealous eye on David.

GODLY JEALOUSY…
2 Cor 11:2
2 I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy. I promised you to one husband, to Christ, so that I might present you as a pure virgin to him.



BUDDHISM Basic Beliefs and Practices
The basic doctrines of early Buddhism, which remain common among Buddhists today, include the “four noble truths:” existence is suffering (dukhka); suffering has a cause, namely craving and attachment (trishna); there is a cessation of suffering, which is nirvana; and there is a path to the cessation of suffering, the “eightfold path” of right views, right resolve, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, and right concentration.
Meditation and observance of moral precepts are the foundation of Buddhist practice. The five basic moral precepts, undertaken by members of monastic orders and the laity, are to refrain from taking life, stealing, acting unchastely, speaking falsely, and drinking intoxicants.

Advice, Wisdom, and Coaching

In the past couple of years I made the same decision twice. I was working on something significant. Two projects, each of which had a goal. I had attempted these projects and goals before and failed. But this time I decided to do something very biblical. Actually I decided to do two things. First of all I decided to ask for advice, to seek wisdom. And then I decided that since I had asked some pretty sharp people for this advice, that I would actually follow their advice. That second decision was just as important as the first.

Case #1 Grant proposal to the Lilly Endowment
In 2001 I had written a grant proposal for our church to the Lilly Endowment for some funding. It was a great experience. But we were denied the grant.
In 2006 I again wrote a grant proposal for the same purpose. This time I asked Laura to give me her wisdom and advice. She has significant wisdom in the area of grant writing, so I decided that unless I had a compelling reason not to, I would follow her advice. All of it. I did. We got the grant.

Case #2 Marathon training
In 2002 I trained for a marathon, and tried to qualify for the Boston Marathon. I worked really hard, but was hit with an injury while running my qualifying marathon, so I did not reach my goal. Same thing in 2003. Same thing in 2004, and in 2005. I took 2006 off, thinking I was done with running the marathon. But in 2007 I decided to get a coach. Ken agreed. He has run 50 marathons including Boston several times, and has successfully coached others who wanted to run Boston. I decided once again that unless I had a compelling reason not to, I would follow Ken's advice. All of it. I did. I ran the best marathon of my life and qualified for Boston with eight minutes to spare. I will run the Boston Marathon on April 21, 2008.
I'm seeing a pattern here. A wise person once said, "The way of a fool seems right to him, but a wise man listens to advice" (Proverbs 12:15). I'm starting to get it. Not only hearing the advice, but putting it into practice.

Training

I am in the midst of some serious (for me) training to run a marathon in April.
There is a significant measure of intensity associated with this task. For the most part I enjoy this.
I often think of the biblical command to "train yourself to be godly" (1 Timothy 4:7). In my experience of 23+ years in Christian ministry I have discovered very little emphasis upon the training aspect of discipleship. I've seen and heard lots of exhortations to try hard, but little practical help on the training that is necessary. John Ortberg says in one of his writings that there is a vast difference between trying and training. Trying to be a disciple is overrated; training to be a disciple is underappreciated.
Most of my friends could try as hard as they possibly could right now, exerting every ounce of effort and energy they can muster, and in spite of all that, would not be able to run a marathon. The reason--they have not trained for it.
They have not engaged in a systematic, prolonged process of planned effort that leads to progress toward reaching a goal.
Most of us overestimate the value of trying, and underestimate the value of training.
During the six years I have been working at this I have learned that running a marathon is not really all that hard; but training properly to run a marathon, that is a lot of work. Not so much the effort of any particular day or week, but the whole training process. By the time one gets to the starting line, it really doesn't matter how motivated you are, how hard you try, how seriously you take the race. What matters is really only one thing: How well did you train?
I'm starting to think that when we hit the starting line for the next phase of eternal life (called death) the same thing is going to matter: How well did you train?

Women as elders

SOME ARGUMENTS FOR AND AGAINST WOMEN SERVING AS ELDERS

The church I serve has recently made a decision to allow women to serve in the office of elder. Not all agree that this is the best step. Here are some of the biblical arguments that support this action, followed by some of the biblical arguments that are against this action.

SOME ARGUMENTS FOR WOMEN SERVING AS ELDERS

1) The Holy Spirit comes upon all of God's people, male and female, and females will prophesy (speak to the people on God's behalf; declare God's truth to the people of God)

Joel 2:28
28And afterward,
I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
your old men will dream dreams,
your young men will see visions.
THE ABOVE TEXT CITED IN ACTS 2…
Acts 2:17
17 "'In the last days, God says,
I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
your young men will see visions,
your old men will dream dreams.

2) Men and women are absolutely equal in Christ.
Gal 3:28-29
There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
3) Women as prophetesses, leaders, core followers of Jesus, and witnesses to the resurrection

Deborah (Judges 4:4ff) was a prophetess and was the leader of all Israel

Huldah (2 Chron 34) when the King of all Israel wanted to hear from God, he sent representatives to consult with the prophetess Huldah, who spoke for God to the entire nation; God's word came through her)

Acts 21:8-9
we reached Caesarea and stayed at the house of Philip the evangelist, one of the Seven. 9 He had four unmarried daughters who prophesied .

Priscilla and Aquila ministry team (Acts 18: Rom 16:3) (wife's name listed first, very significant; she was an authorized teacher, and listed before her husband)

Women were in the inner circle of Jesus… (Luke 8:1-4; 23:49 quite a radical thing)

Women were the first to learn of the resurrection, and taught this to the apostles
Matt 28:5-10 Women first met the risen Jesus!! Radical and tremendously significant


4) Cultural considerations
Women in first century were severely limited in what they were allowed to do, and in that culture people would have been completely scandalized and turned away from the gospel if the cultural norm had been violated.
In our culture it is scandalous (and frequently illegal) to say to a woman that you cannot serve in a role because of your gender; puts a similar stumbling block that can turn people away from the gospel because of what they see as oppression or gender discrimination.

In Ephesus (where Timothy was pastor) there was a radical feminism permeating the culture (the Amazons; gross and immoral pagan worship of the goddess Artemis or Diana) which strongly impacts his ministry context

5) Each generation must interpret and apply the text
Every faith group, every hermeneutical perspective interprets the Bible and makes decisions about how it applies today. And every group finds certain portions, texts, verses, that it believes are not directly relevant or applicable.

Example: for most of church history, slavery was accepted, and approved of by Christians; many sermons were once preached in this country on why slavery is a biblical practice. Slavery is in the bible. But, none of us believes in it or practices it now.

Other Examples: The Bible says that we should greet each other with a holy kiss, that women should not have any gold jewelry or pearls, that women should have their head covered in worship. We practice none of these, and don't feel that we should. But there are verses that command these practices. Somehow we are making some decisions as a Christian community how to apply the Bible to our situation.

6) Many churches and groups have ordained women and their churches and ministries are flourishing and bearing fruit. They have not been "taken over" by women or abandoned the faith

SOME ARGUMENTS AGAINST WOMEN AS ELDERS

1) Paul prohibits a woman from teaching or having authority over a man; and says elders should be men
1 Tim 2:11-3:4
11 A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15 But women will be saved through childbearing — if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.
1 Here is a trustworthy saying: If anyone sets his heart on being an overseer, he desires a noble task. 2 Now the overseer must be above reproach, the husband of but one wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3 not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money.

Paul also writes to Titus that elders should be men
Titus 1:5-7
The reason I left you in Crete was that you might straighten out what was left unfinished and appoint elders in every town, as I directed you. 6 An elder must be blameless, the husband of but one wife, a man whose children believe and are not open to the charge of being wild and disobedient.

2) The principle of male headship
1 Cor 11:3-4
Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

3) Jesus had no female apostles
If God wanted women to be in all types of leadership, Jesus would have had women in such roles.

4) Centuries of church practice and tradition
For many hundreds of years the church has taught and practiced that men should serve in the roles of elder and pastor.